00:00 Pim Roelofsen: Welcome to The MedMen Show. Today we are talking about MEDDIC and hiring — from the candidate's perspective. 00:04 Andy Whyte: From the candidate's perspective, right? 00:06 Pim Roelofsen: That's right. And you're going to kick us off with a story, Pim. 00:08 Andy Whyte: Yes — the story is as follows. I was speaking to a former leader of mine the other day and he said this: "I was in an interview with a candidate and they portrayed knowing MEDDIC really well — and then flashed the MEDDIC book in front of the camera." So the leader went on to ask some questions: "Tell me about how you've used this and that." And "what's your favorite element?" They went on to talk about metrics — and it was apparent they didn't know the first thing about it. They saw right through it and it didn't end well. 00:41 Andy Whyte: Yeah. I kind of feel like anyone who's going to volunteer up a book they've read in a sales interview — and it's a sales book — you've got to have actually read the book. But even further than that: if you're going to offer up metrics as your favorite element, you've got to be able to articulate it. Because if I'm interviewing someone and they say metrics is their favorite letter, I'm like: "Oh, OK — this is actually a pretty good sign, because it means they can be very value-oriented. You can't really do metrics well without being pretty good at sales." So I'll say: "Tell me more." And then I can see how they're digging themselves a hole. And that's exactly what happened. 01:14 Pim Roelofsen: And I think more and more companies out there — especially the desirable ones — will be hiring for MEDDIC. So I can kind of see how this scenario came to be: the candidate thought "this is just a criteria, a lens this company is using to find the right candidates — I actually have this book, I didn't read it, but let me influence how I'm being perceived here." Yeah — and I kind of feel that as much as it's about the candidate making sure they've prepared accordingly, you're also going to want to make sure you can find a good company to work for. Because it's so fashionable now to advertise MEDDIC in your job responsibilities. I did a search the other day and it was hard to find a recognizable company that didn't list MEDDIC as either a required capability or a preferred skill. 01:55 Pim Roelofsen: And coming into a role like that — particularly if you're a genuine practitioner, if you really believe in and use MEDDIC — you almost want to be testing the company as much as they're testing you. Because the last thing you want to do is join an organization where all MEDDIC is is that classic postmortem reactive checklist — just admin you have to fill in on Salesforce. 02:31 Andy Whyte: 100%. It really goes both ways. And we've seen some incredible examples of people investing in themselves. People that have the experience and work with MEDDIC — but if they find it's a requirement at a company they'd really like to get into, they go and do one of our programs and get to the level where they can say "I did this, and therefore I'm a better candidate than I was before." And I think you've seen hundreds of messages from people confirming that. 03:02 Pim Roelofsen: Yeah — I get to be in a very privileged position because of that. I get to see people who have this craving in their DNA, and they're looking for the path that's going to help them unlock their full potential. And one of the great things about MEDDIC, as we know, is that it correlates to the sharpest end of our industry. The more organizations tend to be good at execution, the more they tend to use MEDDIC. So if you're hungry in your career and want to work for the best companies — you're going to find those best companies using a variation of MEDDIC. And the people with that innate hunger and drive to invest in themselves are the ones finding their way onto that path. We get to see a lot of those people and they feed back to us that we've helped them on that journey — which is a great privilege. 03:56 Andy Whyte: Yeah. Like I said — it makes me smile every time. I checked in with someone recently — you remember Tanner? 04:03 Pim Roelofsen: I do remember Tanner. 04:05 Andy Whyte: Yeah — so he invested in himself and then landed a role at Zscaler. And it's a cool story, but he told me something interesting — besides just landing the job, he said: "It really helped me accelerate into the role effectively and become a seller at the full level of my potential in a very short frame of time." 04:32 Pim Roelofsen: I like that. Well — it's just the language, isn't it? That's why we love the common language approach. It just helps you focus on the right areas at the right time. But I would say: go even further back than when you start the role. Use MEDDIC in your interview. So as you approach that interview — you start to think: what is it I want to get from this first conversation? That's the process element. What am I trying to establish? What is this maybe even internal recruiter looking for? What pain are they trying to solve? Well — we know an internal recruiter is dealing with a lot of candidates and trying to filter which ones will make the hiring manager happy to talk to. The hiring manager's time is precious. So the recruiter wants to put high-quality candidates in front of them. You want to get to the point. At that first stage it's all about the value elements — you're not going to know much from the outside in, but you can ask good questions to shape yourself up as someone who can get straight to the point. 05:50 Andy Whyte: So you get that first interview locked in — then it's about research, the same way you'd research a first meeting. Who else can you reach out to? Who can give you insights to help you stand out in that conversation with the hiring manager? And that's about researching: what pain could I be solving for this manager? Why is there a vacancy? Is it because the sales team is expanding and the manager is getting busier — in which case I can demonstrate I can hit the ground running and ramp fast. Or maybe they're replacing somebody — which is a completely different approach. In that case you're thinking: why did the last person leave? Were they fired? What did they do wrong? I want to show this hiring manager I'm going to be different, I'm going to be a much higher performer. So it's really about approaching your own value proposition for the pain you're solving for the hiring manager — showing you're the person who's going to help them hit their goals. 07:03 Pim Roelofsen: And that's exactly what it is. The bottom line: approach it like a deal. And especially if it is for a sales role — what else would you do? And I'm just surprised by how much I see people not doing that. "Oh no, this isn't a deal — this is me landing a job." Whereas it is the best opportunity to show them what you've got. 07:27 Andy Whyte: Yeah. And to give a couple of examples — the hiring manager, you need to build them as a champion. The recruiter is probably like a coach who gets you access to the champion. And ultimately the person who signs off on hiring — that's the economic buyer. Who is it? Right. And then if you use MEDDIC as your co-pilot to land the job, it is just like a deal. Approach it as such. Every element counts. Even competition — which works both from an internal and external perspective. You're coming in as an external candidate being compared to perhaps an internal competitor: someone moving from another team, or an SDR looking to get promoted. So you have to think about internal competition as well as the obvious external competition — the other candidates. 08:16 Pim Roelofsen: Yeah. And you've got every single element involved, including the process. There's nothing better than when you as a hiring manager get on to even just a first interview — and the candidate takes control, figures out your time constraints: "Just want to confirm I've got 45 minutes — is that the same for you? I want to make sure I leave time at the end for questions." All the things we know are good practice in a meeting. It's the first impression, and you can immediately think: I can see this person in the role I'm looking to fill. And then you switch — as a hiring manager you think: I like this person. And you start selling to them a little, because you don't want to lose them. 09:03 Andy Whyte: And our new Chief Product Officer, Lara — this is almost embarrassing to say for our industry — it was probably the best first interview I've ever had. She introduced a challenge straight away. Within seconds of the pleasantries being over, she took control and wanted to know what outcome I was looking for. All the right stuff. And I remember sitting there thinking: this is a great experience. And also thinking: I kind of wish that salespeople approached interviews like this. 09:51 Pim Roelofsen: Same page. And I would say this: because we started this conversation talking about an interview where someone portrayed a picture that was just false — MEDDIC has become a bit of a status symbol from a candidate's perspective. See it like a Rolex. If you're wearing it as such, you've got to make sure it's a real one. Because those who know will be able to tell whether it's real or not. And so if you think about this: if you don't have the experience, if you don't have the depth to back it up — invest before you withdraw. Otherwise that Rolex just won't work. If you see MEDDIC in a job role and you haven't necessarily done it to that level, that's a good insight — because there's a lot out there, like our website for example, where you can level up. That's what Tanner did. He's been there two years now, got a promotion, creating a rising tide within his own team. But it really starts with approaching it honestly — not portraying something you haven't done yet — and using it to win at the individual level first. 11:19 Andy Whyte: Yeah. And there's a really key point I want to get across here as well. If you're interviewing at a company that lists MEDDIC on their job description as a requirement or preferred skill — it's going to be important you can demonstrate you use it and have experience with it. But just as important — that organization should be able to demonstrate to you that they actually use it. Because so many companies will be claiming they're in this league of good execution. But they're probably not using it very well. And I've had this experience myself — I went from an organization that used MEDDPICC to it being part of my decision criteria for my next role as an AE. And I asked about it in the interview — but I didn't ask well enough. I turned up and no one was using it. Just derelict fields in Salesforce. And I still used it myself, but it wasn't the same as using it as part of the organization. 12:19 Andy Whyte: So be looking — as much as you're demonstrating that you use MEDDIC — also look to the sales leadership team and the other people you talk to, to make sure they're actually using it as well. Because it's a pretty big move in your career, and you don't want to end up at a place that lists it on the job description but doesn't really do anything with it. That's a bad signal — and it also doesn't say great things about the go-to-market organization's ability to be consistent and execute. 12:49 Pim Roelofsen: Yeah. For me, the bottom line is: it goes back to this being a mutual evaluation. It's not just about finding the right person — it's also about finding the right role and the right company. So if you use MEDDIC as a lens from the candidate's perspective — are you seeing the right things here? — then you can make sure you don't end up in a situation that's just not what you thought it would be. Cheers to that! 13:17 Andy Whyte: Cheers!
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